Steve, I am replying to your note because by your statements I obviously failed in getting the points I wanted to make across to the general audience. "Stealing" roulettes and "fraud" presented to a new collector from a transaction point a view have nothing to do with one another - I agree!!! However, in my opinion the ETHICS involved in both transactions say a lot about who we are. I was merely attempting, in my Rev. Jim way, to point out how individuals pick and choose the ethics they wish to support. We justify to ourselves what we do is O.K.. I can't say for sure but I'll bet those individuals on ebay do not believe they are doing anything wrong in selling their chips just like those who take roulettes do not believe they are doing anything wrong either.I WAS TRYING TO POINT OUT THE HYPOCRISY. I guess I failed. It won't be the first or the last time I failed in trying to get a point across. I believe both transactions do damage to our hobby. I was also pointing out that it appears those who take roulettes are the most vocal in warning collectors in what they are buying on ebay. I found this ironic and humorous. That's all nothing more nothing less.