Paul this is my last post on this subject. That is my point exactly its Mel's word against Dean's word that Mel told him they were fake. I Could not in good judgement take ones word over the other on that matter. So If mel was convicted on something else then I have no knowledge of that. If some other member in good standing was standing there and heard Mel say that then I would have to rethink me views on it. I Don't really care about all of life's other matters I was just addressing this one only. And to throw a little side note on that. One of my co-workers was hit the other day when a old man ran the stop light. When the police came the old man's passenger said the light was green and a witness that was not involved said my co-workers light was green. So who do the police believe its one persons word against the others.