... we're getting close to the point of the exercise.

You haven't, however, been reading my posts carefully enough:

>> You feel shill bidding is perfectly acceptable <<

I have yet to say whether I think shill bidding is perfectly acceptable, partially acceptable depending on the circumstances or not acceptable at all. All I have done so far is ask some questions and make some provocative comments. I specifically said I would answer the questions and express my own opinion when the thread died out.

What I am trying to do is to get everyone THINKING about the issue, not reacting with knee-jerk, emotional, off-the-cuff opinions. Unfortunately, the specific point you made (that shill bidding is "unethical") is a matter of opinion, sort of like religion and politics. It is helpful only in evaluating what you personally think about the issue; not how others SHOULD or MIGHT think about it, except insofar as they value your opinion.

>> I wonder what the results would be if a poll were taken asking 2 questions: 1) are you a collector, dealer, or both; 2) do you feel that the practice of shill bidding is perfectly acceptable. <<

I don't (wonder, that is). I can tell you. The majority of collectors would say they do not think it is acceptable, perhaps under any circumstances. The majority of true dealers (that is, not the collectors who also sell as a sideline, but those who earn their living exclusively from dealing in whatever item is involved in the auction) would believe that shill bidding is OK, at least where it is not prohibited by the auction venue rules. I suspect that a significant portion of them would support the proposition that either seller or shill bidding should be permitted, particularly if the auction format permits neither a minimum bid nor a reserve (for reasons which should be obvious to anyone who earns a living by selling anything, no matter how the sale is concluded). ----- jim o\-S