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OK, folks -- here's my correspondence with Christopher Lubrano, the
seller of the $34.00 set of James Bond chips (this is a LONG message, so be prepared):
First, the description of the eBay lot:
> I have for auction a set of six[6] AUTHENTIC prop casino chips used during the filming of the James Bond movie,"License to Kill" starring Timothy Dalton.These chips were acquired back in 1989 after the filming of the movie was complete. They were obtained by a collector/dealer who has a friend who works as a sound man on major Hollywood motion pictures.The prop chips were then obtained by myself. There are six different denominations of chips $1,$5,$25,$100,$500,& $1000 [see picture below] They also all have the seal of the ficticious movie casino,'Casino de Isthmus City'. These are NOT the fake copies being sold on other ebay auctions! A Certificate of Authenticity will be provided. Winning bidder may pay by money order,or by check [check must clear bank] Shipping will be $3.00 Thank you and good luck bidding.
And our email exchange (as well as explanatory messages to/from John Johannes):
----------11111----------
> Subject: James Bond chips
> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 03:04:30 -0700
> From: runtam <runtam@pacbell.net>
> Organization: runtam
> To: chrislubr@worldnet.att.net
>
> Dear Chrislubr -- I am skeptical about these chips. What you call
> "fakes" are made by the same manufacturer as these so-called authentic"
> chips and are absolutely indistinguishable. They are also available in
> quantity at a cost of 60 cents each.
>
> Who will provide/sign the "certificate of authenticity" mentioned in
> your auction lot description. What does it authenticate? Is it dated?
> Signed?
>
> Thank you for your response. ----- jim o\-S
----------22222----------
>
> Subject: Re: James Bond chips
> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 02:24:35 -0400
> From: "Christopher Lubrano" <chrislubr@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <runtam@pacbell.net>
> >
> Jim, All I can do is give you the e-mail address of the collector that I got them from. He is in CA. He had also pointed out to me that there are prop casino chips out there that were fascimiles, and that his were geniune. The certificate of authenticity is merely a piece of mind gesture from myself. It is a guarantee from me that if the chips 'prove' to be fakes, that is not set used props from the film,then I would give you your money back. I have seen sets of these chips go for $250.00 over at the Universal Studios auction, and they do not issue any COAs with them. If I was a big movie studio auctioning off these chips that I got from someone else, such as Universal did, would that make you feel any better about them? E-mail this collector and voice your concerns to him. If he can satisfy them for you, then maybe you will bid on them. I am not out to take advantage of anyone. Even if these chips prove to be non used pieces, my auction price with no reserve is more than reasonable. The bottom line: Buyer Beware Thanks,Chris
> Collectors E-mail- JohnJohannes@prodigy.net
----------33333----------
> Subject: James Bond chips
> Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 12:47:14 -0700
> From: runtam <runtam@pacbell.net>
> Organization: runtam
> To: johnjohannes@prodigy.net
> >
> Hi John --- I have had the following correspondence with a seller
> named Christopher Lubrano. Would appreciate any observations you would
> care to make (as I am considering lodging a complaint against the
> seller, but want to have complete information before I do). Thanks for
> your response. ----- Jim Reilly
[Here I reproduced the first two messages.]
----------44444----------
> Subject: Re: James Bond chips
> Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 21:25:49 -0700
> From: runtam <runtam@pacbell.net>
> Organization: runtam
> To: Christopher Lubrano <chrislubr@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Dear Chris ----- thanx for your response to my earlier email. I have
> purchased a number of items from John Johannes over eBay and have sent
> him an inquiry regarding these chips (but have not yet received a
> response). I have as yet taken no other action regarding your lot,
> though I am dismayed at the maximum bid for these chips. I personally
> feel that an uninformed (abd probably neophyte) buyer has bid way too
> much for chips that can never be definitively established as having
> actually been used in the movie (even if that would make a difference
> in their value, vis-a-vis other identical chips which were produced
> later).
>
> Caveat emptor is always good advice; however, I was also disappointed
> in your response, to the extent that you rely on this advice even in
> the face of information which indicates that you are offering an
> auction lot which may not be what you represent it to be.
> If you had a certificate of authenticity from the studio, for example,
> that these chips had actually been used in the movie, I might feel
> differently.
>
> To answer you question regarding the sale by Universal Studio of the
> same chips, my answer would be that I'd feel no differently unless they
> also had some means of differentiating their offered chips from the
> thousands of others on the market at much lower prices. I'm absolutely
> baffled why anyone would pay $250 for a set of these chips without some
> guarantee of that nature.
>
> Anyway, I look forward to hearing from John Johannes about these chips
> and, regardless, I hope you do the right thing by the bidders on your
> lot. I sense that you are not out to just rip people off, but feel
> certain that the high bidder will feel ripped off if and when he finds
> out that he could have bought an identical set of these chips for as
> little as $3.60 each. ----- jim o\-S
>
----------55555----------
> Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 23:01:33 -0700
> From: "JOHN M JOHANNES" <JOHNJOHANNES@prodigy.net>
> To: <runtam@pacbell.net>
> CC: <JohnJohannes@prodigy.net>
> >
> Jim,
> As you know, all the casino chips for the 1989 James Bond thriller
> "License To Kill" were manufactured by Paulson in Las Vegas.
> Chris had asked me about the number of James Bond chips that were
> available since he noticed more than a few people selling them in
> ebay auctions.
> This is my basic response to his question: The production figures for
> the actual number of chips made for the James Bond thriller -
> License To Kill - are confidential. Only the manufacturer of the casino
> chips and the movie studio know the exact number of chips made. I do
> know that after all filming was completed on the movie set, almost
> all of the chips were inventoried (counted), boxed up, and shipped out.
> Where I do not know. Some of the chips were retained by key personnel
> who had something to do with the movie itself. My close friend was
> a "sound man" on the movie set of License To Kill and was able to
> secure a few of the sets. He knows that I collect casino items
> and any movie-related gambling items such as movie prop chips. So, he
> offered me a couple of sets for my own private collection . The chips
> were actually used in the filming sequences of the movie. He was
> personally given the chips in 1989 after all filming was completed on
> the movie set. Some of the others (James Bond chips) offered on ebay
> may or may not have been used in the "actual filming" of the movie.
>
> I believe that all the James Bond casino chips were made by Paulson at
> one time back in 1989. Then all the chips were sent to the prop
> department to be used in the filming scenes where a ficticious casino
> was to be shown. Some of the chips were "actually used in scenes" where
> a casino was involved in various filming sequences. Obviously, some
> of the chips were probably not used in the filming of the movie, but
> were "available" in case more casino chips were ever needed.
> As is the case in normal production figures for most props used in the
> movies, there is always a tendency to have many "extras" available -
> there is not time to have more produced at a moments notice if ever
> called for.
>
> As far as I know, all the chips are supposed to be uniform in "looks",
> so there would be no way to determine a casino chip used in a "filming
> sequence" versus another chip that was "available" for use - but never
> used.
>
> I personally do not like the term "fakes" as it relates to these James
> Bond chips. They supposedly were all made specifically for this License
> To kill" movie. So, in my opinion, they should all be considered
> "legitimate chips" . Where the potential dilema arises is the
> determination of whether the specific James Bonds chips were "actually
> used in filming sequences" (which would make them authentic movie
> prop casino chips) - or - if they were not used in actual filming
> sequences but were "available for possible filming sequences". This
> could be a hard one to call. Everyone will not agree on "definitions
> of terms" - or - "semantics".
>
> Also, as far as I know, there has never been a "COA" (Certificate of
> Authenticity) offered by the movie studio for any of these James Bond
> chips. Private sales may or may not come with a COA . But, I have never
> heard of one being offered by anyone.
>
> I have tried to include all responses to your inquiries about these
> James Bond casino chips. I hope that this long commentary has been of
> some help to you. Please LMK if I can be of any further assistance to
> you. John in San Diego.
>
> ----------66666----------
>
> Subject: Re: James Bond chips
> Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 21:39:37 -0700
> From: runtam <runtam@pacbell.net>
> Organization: runtam
> To: Christopher Lubrano <chrislubr@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Dear Chris --- right after sending my previous message, I received the
> following from John Johannes:
[Here I inserted text of message above]
>
> This should give you ample explanation why I (and other experienced
> chip collectors) have reservations about these chips. Furthermore, I
> can offer one correction to what John thinks -- these chips are also
> still available directly from Paul-Son, so they were NOT all shipped
> out to the casino. I know this, because I wrote to them about two
> years ago to obtain information and an order form for a variety of
> their chips. Among the items offered were three varieties of "fantasy"
> chips (the Bond movie version, Scandia Casino of Norway and Casineo de
> Mexico).
>
> If you'd like, I'd be happy to send you copies of these materials so
> that you can see them for yourself. If so, send me your snail mail
> address.
>
> Now more than ever I think it is incumbent upon you to do the right
> thing with respect to your auction lot and at least advise the buyers
> of the true situation. I have not done so (though I have done so with
> respect to another lot of a single Bond chip) and may still with
> respect to yours if you are unwilling to do so yourself.
>
> Sincerely, Jim Reilly
>
----------77777----------
> Subject: Re: JAMES BOND " LICENSE TO KILL " MOVIE PROP CASINO CHIPS
> Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 21:52:47 -0700
> From: runtam <runtam@pacbell.net>
> Organization: runtam
> To: JOHN M JOHANNES <JOHNJOHANNES@prodigy.net>
>
> Hi John and thanks for your detailed information on this subject. If
> you read Greg Susong's chip collector BB, you know that this has been a
> subject of some controversy there.
>
> I (and other experienced collectors) feel it is important to help
> neophytes avoid being ripped off and these chips are fertile ground for
> nefarious claims.
>
> One part of your explanation I think I can correct (or at least
> clarify): Paul-Son apparently did not send all of these chips to the
> studio (or they continued to produce them); as recently as two years
> ago, they could still be ordered directly from Paul-Son for 60 cents
> each. I wrote to them and obtained ordering information regarding
> their products, which included a flyer for their "fantasy casino" chips
> (Bond, Scandia & Casino de Mexico), as well as other "collectible" sets
> (Indian chiefs, presidents, war planes, military commanders and zodiac
> chips).
>
> In any event, I have asked Chris Lubrano to consider advising his
> bidders of the true state of affairs, though I have not as yet
> contacted them directly or filed any complaint with eBay. I have also
> forwarded to him the complete text of your email to me; perhaps if you
> know him well, you could review his lot description and, if you think
> it appropriate, contact him directly.
>
> You and I have had a good relationship and I trust your judgement --
> any observations you care to share about Chris might be helpful.
>
> Thanks again ----- jim o\-S
>
----------88888----------
>
> Subject: Re: James Bond chips
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 04:19:45 -0400
> From: "Christopher Lubrano" <chrislubr@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <runtam@pacbell.net>
>
> Jim,
> I have talked to John Johannes about the chips since your inquiry.I
> stand by my listing as authentic chips.If you feel uneasy about bidding
> on them,then by all means,do not bid. Thanks,Chris
----------99999----------
> Subject: Re: James Bond chips
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 04:46:20 -0400
> From: "Christopher Lubrano" <chrislubr@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <runtam@pacbell.net>
>
> > Jim,
> I don't know why you are so adament about these chips that you feel
> you must force your personal opinion upon the bidders in my auction.
> What is your 'expertise' in this field anyway? What it comes down to is
> whether or not you want to believe John Johannes word that his chips
> are set used and were obtained for him by someone who had an inside to
> the filming of the movie. I collect all sorts of Authentic props with
> little more than a phone call sometimes. But I have confidence that
> what I am buying is the real thing, because I know who my source is,and
> what contacts they have in the industry. You agree that there were
> chips shown at the gaming table in the movie? Those set used chips had
> to go to someone, why not John Johannes? If you don't personally accept
> his explanation about the chips, that's your business. And you
> certainly don't have to bid on them. But imposing what comes
> down your opinion on my other bidders, I take that as a threat to me
> personally, and totally none of your business. And I will report you
> to ebay if you in any way sabotage my auction. Really Sincere,Chris
----------10-10-10-10-10----------
> Subject: James Bond chips
> Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 01:28:46 -0700
> From: runtam <runtam@pacbell.net>
> Organization: runtam
> To: Christopher Lubrano <chrislubr@worldnet.att.net>
> CC: JohnJohannes@prodigy.net
>
> Dear Chris -----
>
> >I don't know why you are so adament about these chips that you feel
> >you must force your personal opinion upon the bidders in my auction. <
> I am not trying to "force" my "opinion" on anyone. I just
> think that potential buyers of these chips should be made aware of the
> true state of affairs; that is, that they may never be able to prove
> to any other future buyer that these chips were used in the movie and
> as a result may find it difficult, if not impossible, to recoup their
> investment in them. Any bidder in possession of all the facts can form
> his/her own "opinion" and act accordingly.
>
> >What is your 'expertise' in this field anyway?<
> In the field of "movie props", none.
> In the field of casino chips, some, though there are many
> collectors (probably including John Johannes), who have greater
> expertise than I. If you are truly interested in seeing what
> knowledgeable chip collectors think, visit Greg Susong's Chip
> Collector's Cyberguide bulletin board (www.chipguide.com or
> specifically http://208.233.94.75/cgi-bin/config.pl) and review the
> threads entitled "BIG Chip Find" (there are several of them).
> In the field of fraudulent advertising, quite a lot, as I have
> practiced criminal law from both sides of the street for more than 20
> years.
>
> > What it comes down to is whether or not you want to believe John
> > Johannes word that his chips are set used and were obtained for him
> > by someone who had an inside to the filming of the movie.<
> It may come down to that for me, but none of the bidders on
> your lot have any of the additional information you provided to me, so
> they don't even have that to rely on. I don't doubt for a minute that
> John is relating accurately how he obtained the chips and what he was
> told about them. That doesn't change the fact that if you put that set
> next to the one I bought for $6, neither you nor John nor the soundman
> nor even the manufacturer could tell them apart. And I can go buy
> hundreds more which look exactly the same for 60 cents each if I want.
>
> > I collect all sorts of Authentic props with little more than a phone
> > call sometimes. But I have confidence that what I am buying is the
> > real thing,because I know who my source is, and what contacts they
> > have in the industry.<
> This information makes me glad I don't collect movie props.
>
> > You agree that there were chips shown at the gaming table in the
> > movie? Those set used chips had to go to someone, why not John
> > Johannes?<
> Of course, these chips MAY be exactly as represented, which
> begs the issue. And your proposed "certificate of authenticity" would
> be pretty much worthless; if accurately stated, it could do nothing
> more than say "I was told by the person that I bought these from that
> he was told by the person who gave them to him that they really did
> come from the movie set, though it's not even certain that they
> actually appeared in the movie."
>
> > If you don't personally accept his explanation about the chips,
> > that's your business. And you certainly don't have to bid on them.
> > But imposing what comes down your opinion on my other bidders, I take
> > that as a threat to me personally, and totally none of your
> > business.<
> We part company here. As stated above, I'm not interested in
> imposing my opinion on anyone, but I also think potential buyers have a
> right to know the true facts regarding these chips so they can make an
> informed decision whether or not to buy them. And I think it is fairly
> the business of anyone who has knowledge of those facts to make them
> known to ANYONE else, including potential buyers of your auction.
>
> >And I will report you to ebay if you in any way sabotage my auction.<
> Feel free to do as you like, though you will find, if you
> review the eBay rules, that advising buyers of the true facts regarding
> an auction lot is not against the eBay rules, even if it has the effect
> of "sabotaging" the sellers auction. I don't sell these things myself
> and would not be offering to do so at a lower price than the auction
> bid.
>
> I do not, however, intend to directly contact your bidders on this lot
> (only because I DO believe John and despite the fact that I consider
> your description of the lot somewhat deceitful by omission). I AM,
> however, going to post our email exchange on the chip collectors BB and
> let others make their own decisions as to whether or not they want to
> purchase any chips that you might offer in the future. As for me, I'll
> take your advice and pass, thank you.
>
> Sincerely, Jim Reilly
>
----------11-11-11-11-11----------
> Subject: RE : JAMES BOND " LICENSE TO KILL " MOVIE PROP CASINO CHIPS
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:15:03 -0700
> From: "JOHN M JOHANNES" <JOHNJOHANNES@prodigy.net>
> To: <runtam@pacbell.net>
> CC: <JohnJohannes@prodigy.net>
>
> Hi Jim ,
>
> I will attempt to respond to all your questions.
>
> I have not read Greg's chip collector BB, but will look at his board in
> the next few days to get a "sense" -or- "feeling" of the controversy
> regarding these chips.
>
> I agree with you wholeheartedly that "new chip collectors" should be
> "protected" and "informed" and have "all possible information available
> to them" in the event that they are going to make an "intelligent
> decision" to purchase any gaming memorabilia, including casino chips.
>
> It seems to me that one possible solution to a potentially bigger
> problem would be for someone who knows Paul Endy at Paulson
> to inform him of the "potential problems inherent in future sales of
> any James Bond chips from his sales rooms" . When there was a "problem"
> several years ago with the "Foxy's Casino" chips, several complaints
> from knowledgeable chip collectors caused Paul Endy to remove and
> destroy all of his remaining inventory of the Foxy's chips. Perhaps he
> should be asked to do the same for any remaining inventory of James
> Bond chips that still are being sold from any of their retail stores.
> This might not eliminate the problem completely, but would insure
> that "future chip collectors" will not be "exposed" to chips with
> questionable origins. I think that Paul would be very favorable to a
> request to destroy these chips to avoid any "taint" of "fraud"
> that could be potentially associated with chips that his company did
> manufacture.
>
> Here is my further understanding of the reason why Paulson still has
> any of the James Bond chips in their stock inventory. As far as I know,
> Paulson has not made any "new" James Bond" chips since 1989 - they just
> had more chips than they wanted because of a return of so many of the
> chips from Universal Studios, the company responsible for producing the
> James Bond thriller, License To Kill. An inside source at Paulson
> (whose name I cannot reveal to protect his job) just informed me that
> back in 1989 Paulson agreed to manufacture all the casino chips for
> this movie at "no cost to Universal Studios" in exchange for a "single
> line credit" at the end of the movie. After the movie was released,
> there was no mention of " Paulson " in the movie credits at the end of
> the film . Because of this, Paulson demanded (and got) almost all of
> their chips back from the movie studio. That is the apparent reason why
> there is still an "inventory" of these chips available from Paulson.
> I do not think any new chips have been made - just sales from remaining
> levels of inventory.
>
> I only know Chris through my one contact with him here on ebay. He was
> fair and honest with me in our transaction - this is all the
> information that I can give you about him.
> end of message
----------12-12-12-12-12----------
> Subject: Re: James Bond chips
> Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 19:48:33 -0700
> From: runtam <runtam@pacbell.net>
> Organization: runtam
> To: Christopher Lubrano <chrislubr@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Dear Chris --- I must have been half asleep at 4 in the morning when
> I sent my previous answer to this message. What seems crystal clear
> today didn't even occur to me then:
>
> I don't know why you are so adamant that you feel you must conceal from
> your potential bidders the true nature of these chips. If you truly
> stand by your description and believe that these chips are worth what
> your potential buyers are bidding, despite the circumstances I have
> described to you, why are you not willing to share all of this
> information, with the confidence that the bidders will stand by their
> bids?
>
> The obvious (at least today) answer is that you are not confident that
> the bidders will stand by their bids and therefore want to keep them in
> the dark to maintain the artificially high bids.
>
> As a result of a similar complaint about another seller, I now know
> that eBay will do nothing about false (deliberate or otherwise) auction
> lot descriptions, so I am now left to ponder whether I should post a
> negative feedback.
>
> I would still rather see you do the right thing, here. --- jim o\-S
>
----------13-13-13-13-13----------
> Subject: Re: James Bond chips
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 23:29:24 -0400
> From: "Christopher Lubrano" <chrislubr@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <runtam@pacbell.net>
>
> Jim,
> I don't know want you want me to say about these chips.There were chips
> used in the movie. They were seen sitting in stacks on the gaming
> table in the casino scenes. So, there are definitely set used prop
> chips from that movie, as well as other props that were used. There
> can be no arguement about that. John Johannes claims that he got some
> of those set used chips by way of someone that he knew that had access
> to them. This is what he told me when I purchased these chips from
> him. You even said in your last email to me that you do believe his
> explanation of how he got the chips. I chose to accept his explanation
> as well, and I bought the chips from him. And I did not pay $3.60 for
> them. It was substantially more being that they were used in the
> actual movie. Their value is expedentially (sic) higher, even if they
> are exactly the same as ones that were made and did not get on screen
> and used.
> For example,if the ones that were sold at auction at Universal Studios
> were indeed actual used chips from the movie,the final price of $250.00
> which they went for is not an outrageous price. My listing on ebay is
> simple and to the point,I made the claim that John made to me that the
> chips are authentic,and also explained how I came to have them,also the
> same explanation that John told me. I don't know what else you want me
> to say about them that would make a difference. I am not deceiving
> anybody. Anyone who emails me with questions,such as you have,I will
> and have answered the best I could. I even referred you to the source
> of these chips in order to satisfy your doubts. John was very
> cooperative in this manner, even though this auction is mine and really
> has nothing to do with him, other than the info he has on the chips.
> What else is there to be said that hasn't been said already? I have
> had no complaints from the bidders, and if they have questions, I will
> answer them as well. You say in your last email to me that I am
> keeping the bidders in the dark. In the dark about what? That's the
> one thing in this email exchange you have not spelled out to me.
>
> Chris
----------xxxxxxxxxx----------
I have not as yet responded to the last two messages. And you thought my post on roulettes was long! For anyone who made it this far, I hope this was useful. ---------- jim o\-S
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