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The Chip Board Archive 11

Some parting thoughts ...

... my own:

>> Express your "dissent" all you want prior to committment of troops
>> or at the polls in the next election. With troops in harm's way,
>> ANY statement that would minimize the importance of the mission and
>> boost the moral of the enemy is UNpatriotic and Mr. Jefferson would agree.

Thomas Jefferson was, above all, a reasoning man. It is incomprehensible to me that he would "agree" with an attitude which requires that he stop thinking and speaking his mind. The attitude that you espouse (and demand of others) is not only misguided, but dangerous. In the extreme, it is exactly that kind of thinking which makes it possible for dictators and other tyrants, as well as merely incompetent rulers, to succeed. And there is nothing either "modern day" or "PC" about my opinion. See in particular the Theodore Roosevelt quotes below, as well as George Bernard Shaw's.

>> To say such is to imply that those who are currently dying for
>> the cause for which they are fighting are dying for absolutely nothing.

If they ARE "dying for absolutely nothing", wouldn't it be better to say it now and prevent further deaths than to wait and say it later (after the troops are home) when it is too late to prevent the additional wasted deaths that could have been prevented by timely objection?

And some thoughts not mine, but expressed by some people for whom I have great admiration.

From this site ...

http://thomasmc.com/dissent.htm

... with the following introduction by the website owner.

There is a lot of talk these days about patriotism and dissent. Most Americans have confused Patriotism with Nationalism, though the two are often diametrically opposed. Waving a flag is Nationalism. Dissent is Patriotism. "My country, right or wrong" and "USA: Love it or Leave it" is Nationalism. Pointing out dangerous flaws in government policy is Patriotism. Telling people to "Shut up and get in line with the President" or "If you don't like it, move to France" is the antithesis of Democracy. For a better understanding of Dissent and Patriotism, I leave you with these words from some of the greatest patriots in history:

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-- President Thomas Jefferson

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from the government.
-- Thomas Paine

"A President is impeachable if he attempts to subvert the Constitution".
-- President James Madison

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither."
-- Ben Franklin

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
-- Samuel Adams

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-- Edmund Burke

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."
-- President Abraham Lincoln

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce and brave man, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- 'Mark Twain'

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President."
-- President Theodore Roosevelt

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
-- President Theodore Roosevelt, 1912

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."
-- James Baldwin, Notes of a Native Son

"So long as we have enough people in this country willing to fight for their rights, we'll be called a democracy."
-- Roger Baldwin

"Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion."
-- Oscar Wilde

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."
-- George Bernard Shaw

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
-- Dr. Martin Luther King

"Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph."
-- Haile Selassie

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
-- Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.

Messages In This Thread

NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
Re: NCR 17,000 U.S. Deaths...
I agree with that statement wholeheartedly!
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
AMEN!
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
How should we be supporting our troops ...
Re: How should we be supporting our troops ...
Some parting thoughts ...
Re: Some parting thoughts ...
Ah, the inevitable descent into ...
Re: Ah, the inevitable descent into ...
The course of our discussion ...
Re: The course of our discussion ...
Re: How should we be supporting our troops ...
Re: How should we be supporting our troops ...
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
Don't know the answer to ...
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
I would say you are probably correct
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
Re: NCR "U.S. death toll in Iraq hits 900"
ZERO deaths were necessary because................
Re: ZERO deaths were necessary because............
Re: ZERO deaths were necessary??

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