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The Chip Board Archive 18

The way I see it ( Long)

Jim, I know you are an ex union auto worker, I can sympathize with you but one has to learn that when times are good, you can eat steak but sometimes, you have to go back to hamburger. Contracts that were negotiated 20-30 years ago just don't work now. Insist on keeping them in force and the only thing that will result is a loss of jobs.
I don't begrudge ANYONE making a fair and honest wage, The automobile industry is not in a crisis because of honest wages but because of agreements they no longer can afford and stay competitive. Why do you think jobs are going out of the country

What you seem to be saying here is that because corporate officials were dumb enough to accept these terms while pretty much having a gun held to their head at the time, that we should all live with that now. THAT is exactly why we are in the position we are in, it can no longer be done
You blame corporate officials because of THEIR salaries? No I'm not saying they deserve them or not. However if you multiply $2000 per car for worker benefits times the amount of cars built in the US, the total would make the cost of corporate executive salaries seem like a drop in the bucket.

You say the big three makes good cars. NO ARGUMENT, I too drive a Ford and with the exception of my Jaguar, I have never owned a foreign made vehicle. That however does not change the indifference that the big three had in regards to quality until the Japanese came along an literally MADE them do something about it. As I said in my previous post, that resulted in an entire generation buying Japanese cars and it's highly unlikely that you will get them back

What you need to read is John Zoesch's post. I have copied and pasted it below

I used to work for American Motors and have a few horror stories about why the auto companies are in the shape they are in now. I ran the maintenance department in a building across the street from the rest of the plant. They had an interior two story bridge to get over the road. Whenever we had a replacement or fill in guy he had to get his toolbox across the bridge. Even though these guys moved and installed all types of equipment wit hfork trucks the union contract stated that they couldn't move their own toolbox. That could only be done by a "driver". So every time someone worked the weekend they would have to wait for a driver to move the toolbox over the bridge twice. The system was set up to offer senority not by who had the most hours (share the wealth) but by senority. So that means that the electrician with the most senority would be the first one on the overtime list. Oh yeah - he was as big around as he was tall and had a doctors excuse that did not allow him to climb a ladder. All of the control panels for our equipment were on a maintenance platform above the equipment with a ladder to access it. So if I needed an electrician I had to pay the useless guy to work his normal job (what ever that was) plus the guy I ended up using. Don't forget I also had to bring in the driver to move the %$#%$#@ toolbox. Oh of course they can't work without having a union rep on hand so I had to bring him in also. Forgot one more thing - if we were working on production equipment and wanted to make sure that the machinery was ready to go the next day we had to bring in a set up man to test the machinery - and don't forget HIS union rep!! Get the picture??? Paying one guy $80 an hour to work on equipment is bad enough but bringing in 4 or 5 more just to support him is just ridiculous. Just another consideration about the overtime system - because of the senority system that means that many times the people you get in your area would have no idea how your equipment operated (to support production) or what projects you were in the middle of.
We didn't even have the worst rule that has been killing the car companies for many years and that is the really stupid rule that if you are laid off you keep working on "training" or go home and collect 95% of your pay. What idiot would agree to a 3-5 year contract that would guarantee everyones full pay when we normally have at least a mild recession every few years that result in layoffs? I blame the management for that one. Another consideration is medical costs. When I left American Motors in 1987 we had full medical, prescription, dental and vision. No copay at all for anything. When I went to pick up the COBRA insurance the cost was $550 per month. Remember this is in 1987 dollars.

The unions were not the only problem. My second shift supervisor and I were both on duty one night and at lunch break he took me to his usual lunch spot - a bar next door where you could get a sandwich. He asked if I was going to have a beer also and I said "Sure" figuring one wouldn't kill me. The bartender brought his usual - a QUART of beer! No wonder they always had problems fixing the machinery after the 2nd shift lunch break.

Messages In This Thread

NCR Before you get into your car, read this....
They hire alot of people,
A whole generation
The Unions killed the big three.
Re: The Unions killed the big three.
They had help! Look at the CEO's
Sounds like the Steel Mills in PA
They make profits here, they....pay taxes here too
Leonidas
Re: NCR Before you get into your car, read this...
I love my Chevy truck...
ONE OF MY CARS IS..
I love my Chevy truck too!
chevys are best for me
Re: My first car was a Chevy in 1966 and had
Re: My first car was a Chevy in 1966 and had
The way I see it ( Long)
Re: NCR Before you get into your car, read this...
Re: NCR Before you get into your car, read this...
Re: NCR Before you get into your car, read this...
Re: NCR Before you get into your car, read this...
Ford, Ford & Ford trucks, now Japs trucks & cars
I thought I was buying an American made car...

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