I rather fear that I am getting into something that i never intended to get into. i only ever started this thread because i was intrigued by the current election campaign and the personalities involved and wanted to canvas the views of fellow posters. However now i find myself in the position of having to defend myself.

"Nick, there is no incumbent"

- An incumbent is the current holder of a political office, irrespective of whether an election is taking place or not!

"You must be getting most of your info from The Guardian or the BBC if you believe there is a general consensus in America that the war is/was pointless."

- Opinion poll after opinion poll from both sides of the Atlantic suggest that the overwhelming majority of the public believe that the war was bought about by misinformation and is therefore unjustifiable. This is fact and it is undeniable.

"Nobody, and I mean nobody who had the ability to exercise cogent thought processes believed this would be a short-term action."

- The opinions of many senior commanding officers in Iraq is that a reasonable exit strategy had never been in place from day one. this is also undeniable. Do you seriously think there would be so many troops in Iraq now if there was no insurgency?

"Removing Saddam from the planet was just one goal -- his sons were more ruthless than he was. Establishing a real democracy in a country in that region is the key to fighting terrorism. Terrorists live in the 7th century. Real Democracy strips them of power"

- You simply cant go around setting up democracies in countries that have no history of one. Sure you got rid of Saddam and many Iraqis are grateful for that, but what makes you think ordinary Iraqis want a western style democracy? If they wanted it that badly they would have fought for it themselves the same as your and my ancestors did! Every democracy in history has been fought for and won due to the will of the people not imposed upon it by an invading army, and no matter how you much you romanticise it that is what we are. Just how long after you guys pull out do you think this so called democracy will last before another dictator seizes power? All middle eastern countries are to a greater or lesser degree ruled along religious lines, how many democracies can you name that are almost entirely influenced by the church?

"The Sunnis and Shiites have stopped attacking each other in Iraq, and instead are fighting the insurgent forces being sent into the area from Iran and Syria. They are getting it! They are helping us all fight Islmo-fascists aka al-Qaeda!"

- Do not believe for one minute that the Sunnis and the Shiites are suddenly going to be holding hands and singing songs around the old campfire together. They probably hate each other more than they hate you and me! Also do not labour under the illusion that the insurgency is all to do with Al Quaeda, you'd be wrong.

"Prior to the 21st century, there were less than 20 countries on this planet ruled by a democracy. That number now is over 120."

- The 21st century is only 7 years old where have all these new democracies come from?

"I live in an area that has many military installations. I also travel about 25 times a year for work. I encounter our fighting men and women on a regular basis in airports while on the road and at the grocery store when I'm home. These brave soldiers know why they do what they do, and do so willingly. They know the evils of this world, and they put their lives on the line to fight those evils for us -- God bless them all!"

- Lastly nobody least of all me who has served in the armed forces would wish to denigrate your gallant soldiers. Quite the opposite i just wish more of them were still alive. But they are soldiers! they go where they are told, they do what they are told and they fight who they are told to fight. That is the very nature of soldiering, unquestioning. However my point is that they should never have been put into that position in the first place because they are not fighting world terrorism in Iraq, simply because terrorism doesnt have a home, it is a cancer and it can turn up wherever and whenever it feels like it. At the time we invaded Iraq, Saddam was not threatening anyone (not outside his own country anyway!) not you and not me. Nobody really believes he was responsible for 9/11. Revenge is a dish best served cold!