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The Chip Board Archive 14

My take on the definitions and ethics envolved.
In Response To: Re: Counterfeits ()

Nice discussion here. Here is my take. It seems very simple and important to me, Charles.

Chips in general -- I wouldn't use "poker chips" to describe all chips. I don't know what is best -- maybe "gambling chips".
Checks v. Chips -- I wouldn't get hung up on the difference. In the old days some suppliers, I was told (don't remember where), used the terms interchangeably. Why confuse people.

Casino chips. I'd call them all casino chips if they were issued by the casino. If it has a special use, just add a modifier -- like "roulette casino chip" for a non-value chip used for roulette, or a "non cash value casino chip" for a free drink, or a "match play casino chip", etc.

Poker chip -- not issued by casino; used for home games.

Counterfeit chip -- made to look as much as possible as a particular know valuable chip, so to defraud. It could be made to cheat the casino. It could be made to defraud a collector -- it could be a counterfeit ivory chip, old poker chip, casino chip, etc. To me "Replica" and "Counterfeit" are the same if the new chips look just like an old known particular chip.

Fantasy chip -- this is like a Counterfeit chip in that it is used to defraud collectors. As you will see in a moment, they could never defraud a casino. A Fantasy Chip is one that --up to now-- has never been seen by anyone. It is made in the STYLE of old valuable chips so as to look like a new find of an old chip -- "big discovery." A good example would be a newly-made ivory chip in the style of the typical old ivories. Or a Borland commemorative chip. Or an old casino inlay chip with the inlay removed and replaced with a new one, made to look like the old style. Or a blank chip with some new (old style) hot-stamping on it. Or (a very good example) would be an old-looking Brothel Token for a made-up place (many of these fakes say "Good For All Night" on one side). Or it could be a modern poker chip with some fanciful name and location to fool someone into buying what he thinks is a casino chip he didn't know about till now. Being a new-old design, you can't compare it to anything, just have to analyze the workmanship to prove the fraud or look up in directories, etc, that the place never existed. Not wanting to type all day, let me say that members of the club and anyone ethical should put in their auctions and sales pitches that these chips are "not casino chips (or Brothel chips, antique ivory chips, etc.); they have never been issued by a casino," for example.
I don't care what the intent was; we can never know that. We have to go by common sense. For example if I made a home poker chip set for myself, it could be innocent to have on them "Robert's Casino, Brooklyn NY, $100." But if I put them on eBay with no explanation or a meager explanation, that would be very wrong whatever the motive.

Fakes -- I don't like this term for a category. Both Fantasy chips and Counterfeits are fakes to me. Counterfeits defraud both casinos and collectors, by the way.

I also think that whatever is decided, it is not ethical for a seller to just say "fantasy chip." He should flatly state that these were never used in a casino.

Robert

Messages In This Thread

Fantasy -vs- Souvenir chips question
Do the Barris H.R. chips have a $5 cage value?
Yes
Re: Fantasy -vs- Souvenir chips question
(Message Deleted by Poster)
My Definition of a Fantasy Chip
I would be inclined to 'split' the last category
Counterfeits
Re: Counterfeits
Intent
Re: Counterfeits
My take on the definitions and ethics envolved.
Re: My take on the definitions and ethics envolved
Hey Trimble
Charles. You should include the link to the

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